[Editor’s note: In June 1990 The
John Ankerberg Show taped a series of interviews with men from several
branches of the sciences regarding the evidence for creation. For
technical reasons we were unable to air these interview. Nevertheless,
we have decided to release portions of these interviews in a series of
articles so you could read the arguments that were being made at that
time—more than a decade ago.
Considerable effort has been made to quote the
gentlemen correctly. We have attempted to find the correct spelling of
the scientific terms used. However, the reader should keep in mind
that this is a transcription of oral interviews. Mistakes in spelling
and in the technical language should be laid at the feet of the
editor.]
Dr. Kurt Wise: There is
one thing, Duane, I’d like to bring up that might be confusing to
members of our audience. You mentioned, for example, when you were
discussing the translation procedure, that the messenger RNA leaves
the nucleus and goes out to the cytoplasm.
Well, not all organisms that live today, namely
prokaryotes, have nuclei. In other words, it’s not necessary for the
messenger RNA to leave a nucleus and go out to the cytoplasm for
all organisms. It is still necessary for it to leave the
region of the cell where the DNA is to go to another region of the
cell where the ribosomes are. Just to clarify that, those that would
be concerned that in the formation of that first cell, we were not
talking about a cell with a nucleus, at least according to
evolutionary theory.
The other thing that might be an interesting
clarification, at least a simplification here, the simplest organism
that we know of, the simplest prokaryotes, that organism without even
a nucleus has the capacity to reproduce, and that demands that process
of replication you talked about. You must be able to reproduce the
DNA. So, in order to have life as far as we know it, you have to be
able to reproduce the DNA, that’s where the replication comes in, just
to clarify it for others.
Furthermore, even the simplest cells have, included
within even the simplest of cells, the processes of metabolism. In
order to have metabolism, you must be able to produce protein
molecules of a variety of sorts to allow this metabolism to occur. And
that’s where you have to take that DNA, that information, in the
nucleus. You’ve got to copy it, like a photocopier. You’ve got to take
that copy out into the cell and then you’ve got to produce, you’ve got
to make, build, the proteins for metabolism.
Dr. Duane Gish: Yes, Kurt,
you know that’s a very important point. The simplest cell that we can
imagine could do that would have to have hundreds of enzymes, several
hundred enzymes at the very minimum, and have to have hundreds of DNA
and RNA molecules, and many other molecules as well. And of course, a
membrane would be necessary. As you say, the prokaryotes do not have a
nucleus with a membrane as the other cells do. So it would be very,
very complicated.
Some people speak of a self-replicating molecule.
There is no self-replicating molecule known. DNA does not replicate
itself. It is replicated by the living cell. A virus is not a
self-replicating molecule. When a virus gets inside a living cell,
that cell reproduces a virus and synthesizes the virus. Even viruses
don’t reproduce themselves.
Dr. John Ankerberg: That’s
why the scientists in the laboratory have found out they can’t explain
how this moves on up into higher, more complex life. Now, it also
would be a conclusion why the creationists would point to this and say
this is evidence for design, for complexity, for information. That
needs intelligence; otherwise you can’t get there from here.
Gish: Yes. Let me give you
a simple example I think that everybody could understand. I think that
if we have a mixture of dots and dashes, by chance, certainly by
reasonable chance, you could probably get three dots, followed by
three dashes, and followed by three dots. But it would be entirely
meaningless. It wouldn’t mean anything. It would convey no information
whatsoever.
But man has invented what is called the Morse Code.
Now, in Morse Code, three dots means "s", three dashes means "o", and
so we have "s-o-s." We’ve converted the dots and dashes into s-o-s.
But still that is meaningless. Doesn’t mean anything. By convention
however, we have decided that s-o-s means, "I’m in danger. I need
help. Please send help. S-O-S." You see, even if you could assemble
the dots and dashes by chance, it wouldn’t mean anything, accomplish
nothing, until human beings, intelligent human beings, have decided
that three dots means "s", three dashes means "o" and three dots means
"s"—S-O-S. Then we have to decide, we have by convention decided, that
S-O-S means, "I’m in danger, please send help."
And so again, if we go back to a DNA molecule,
somehow these nucleotide did arrange themselves in a certain way, it
would be totally meaningless, just be nonsense, you see. It wouldn’t
convey any information because the information, what’s required to
take that sequence, the nucleotide, and thereby construct a protein
molecule would require a tremendously complex machine.
